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	<title>Comments on: That Constitutional Law Question</title>
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	<link>http://www.peterwall.net/2008/07/30/that-constitutional-law-question/</link>
	<description>by peter wall</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Koman</title>
		<link>http://www.peterwall.net/2008/07/30/that-constitutional-law-question/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Koman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterwall.net/?p=142#comment-248</guid>
		<description>I dont think it particularly lent itself to IRAC. I think you had to discuss that congress&#039; refusal to pass the legislation was irrelevant because the president could issue the order under some constitutional grant.

most of the points at any rate were on the  4th Amendment. I discussed the applicability of the order to consumers (no expectation of privacy in business&#039; data) and to businesses (reasonable expectation of privacy). then applied facts (warrant requirement, probable cause showing, no applicable 4A exceptions).

I don&#039;t really consider this a crim pro question just because its 4th amendement, since no crimes were involved. it was mostly a standing question (who has standing to object)

richard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont think it particularly lent itself to IRAC. I think you had to discuss that congress&#8217; refusal to pass the legislation was irrelevant because the president could issue the order under some constitutional grant.</p>
<p>most of the points at any rate were on the  4th Amendment. I discussed the applicability of the order to consumers (no expectation of privacy in business&#8217; data) and to businesses (reasonable expectation of privacy). then applied facts (warrant requirement, probable cause showing, no applicable 4A exceptions).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really consider this a crim pro question just because its 4th amendement, since no crimes were involved. it was mostly a standing question (who has standing to object)</p>
<p>richard</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.peterwall.net/2008/07/30/that-constitutional-law-question/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, I definitely agree regarding analysis versus correctness. I made sure that everything I wrote fit clearly into a strict IRAC structure. &quot;Hey, look! I&#039;m thinking like a lawyer!&quot;

And after reading the post you linked, I have to agree with Harper, too. I remember when the Fourth Amendment only appeared in my criminal procedure class and I thought, &quot;Hm. That&#039;s odd. The &#039;plain meaning&#039; of the text, or what it appears to say on its face, does not say anything about criminal procedure.&quot; I do remember my criminal procedure professor pointing out that the warrant requirement does not necessarily go part and parcel with the first clause about security: &quot;The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated[.]&quot; Sure seems to stand alone. That&#039;s exactly where I started my analysis on the bar exam, too. Then, once I realized that everybody was drawing a blank, I had fun with it&#8212;a &lt;em&gt;lot&lt;/em&gt; more fun than I had with the subsequent (and painfully run-of-the-mill) contracts question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I definitely agree regarding analysis versus correctness. I made sure that everything I wrote fit clearly into a strict IRAC structure. &#8220;Hey, look! I&#8217;m thinking like a lawyer!&#8221;</p>
<p>And after reading the post you linked, I have to agree with Harper, too. I remember when the Fourth Amendment only appeared in my criminal procedure class and I thought, &#8220;Hm. That&#8217;s odd. The &#8216;plain meaning&#8217; of the text, or what it appears to say on its face, does not say anything about criminal procedure.&#8221; I do remember my criminal procedure professor pointing out that the warrant requirement does not necessarily go part and parcel with the first clause about security: &#8220;The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated[.]&#8221; Sure seems to stand alone. That&#8217;s exactly where I started my analysis on the bar exam, too. Then, once I realized that everybody was drawing a blank, I had fun with it&mdash;a <em>lot</em> more fun than I had with the subsequent (and painfully run-of-the-mill) contracts question.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.peterwall.net/2008/07/30/that-constitutional-law-question/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peterwall.net/?p=142#comment-246</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ve got to say -- though I haven&#039;t passed yet -- that I really enjoyed the question.  My analysis largely looked like yours with some minor caveats regarding executive orders I had lingering in my head from something.  My goal was analysis more than correctness, anyway.

I&#039;m warming to the belief that this will at least be considered a Con Law/Crim Pro crossover, because the overwhelming opinion seems to be that the Fourth Amendment is a Criminal Procedure area.  However, I tended to fall into the Jim Harper camp over the Orin Kerr camp in the following:
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_06_01-2008_06_07.shtml#1212693646</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve got to say &#8212; though I haven&#8217;t passed yet &#8212; that I really enjoyed the question.  My analysis largely looked like yours with some minor caveats regarding executive orders I had lingering in my head from something.  My goal was analysis more than correctness, anyway.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m warming to the belief that this will at least be considered a Con Law/Crim Pro crossover, because the overwhelming opinion seems to be that the Fourth Amendment is a Criminal Procedure area.  However, I tended to fall into the Jim Harper camp over the Orin Kerr camp in the following:<br />
<a href="http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_06_01-2008_06_07.shtml#1212693646" rel="nofollow">http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_06_01-2008_06_07.shtml#1212693646</a></p>
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